Thursday, October 25, 2012

Frankenstein Paradise Lost Question 1

On page 280:45-50 of the text, Milton describes the hell to which Satan is resigned.  Compare this to the hell to which the creature is resigned?  What about Victor’s hell?

44 comments:

  1. In both Frankenstein and Paradise Lost the characters are resigned to hell. However, each hell is different. Satan is in a physical hell. "...With hideous ruin and combustion, down To bottomless perdition, there to dwell In adamantine chains and penal fire..." (280; 46-48). Satan's hell is described with ruin and combustion. It is bottomless and covered with chains and fire. Satan is literally living in hell, while the creature and Victor live in more of a mental state of hell. The creature resigns in a hell where he is alone. No one will talk to him or care for him. The creature doesn't want to live in this hell, but he chooses too because society rejects him over and over again. Victors hell is determined by the creature. Victor is living in a hell where one by one everyone he loves and cares for is murdered. Victor does not choose this hell, but must live in it because of the choices he's made. Both the creature and Victor appear to be living a normal life, but inside they are trapped within their own hells.

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    1. I agree with this. Satan literally lives in hell, which is physical, but Victor lives more in a mental hell. The hell that Milton decribes is very real; the things that surrounds Satan in hell are visible objects, and Satan is physically trapped in this hell. Victor on the other hand is trapped in his mental hell that he can't escape because of the things that he has done wrong. Victor's hell involves all the pain and suffering he feels from losing his family members and friends. Victor doesn't literally live in hell because he is free to live in the world around him without physically being trapped. Satan is literally living in hell, as opposed to Victor living in his own mental hell.

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    2. I agree with this. Victor is in a mental hell, which correlates to a metaphor as Satan's physical Hell. Victor's hell is that of guilt of the death's the creature has caused and fear of what else he could do. This guilt and fear is eating him apart mentally, causing him be in a mental state of hell. However, it is not like Satan's hell physically.

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  2. The creature and Victor are both resigned to a sort of hell. Victor's hell is alone with no one because everyone he cares about has been killed by the creature. The creature has a similar hell, although his hell is because there is no one like him. (114,2) He says that I was wretched, helpless, and alone.

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    1. I had not examined Vicor’s hell as lonely. To me, his hell had always been his paranoia and thirst for knowledge. The point is interesting and forced me to examine the subject in a new way. In truth, Victor’s thirst for knowledge stems from his loneliness. The loss of his mother deeply affected him and were the main contribution in his pursuit of information about reanimating dead tissue. The relationship between creature’s and Victor’s personal hells were also brought up in this comment. The relationship between Victor and his creature is a fascinating one. In several ways, Victor and creature are both dealing with loneliness and fear. These feelings tie the two characters together, although Victor would never compare himself to his creature. He could not stand the possible links with his creature. Creature, on the other hand, longs for that connection. In truth, Victor and creature are very much alike.

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    2. I agree with Micaela. I think that the creature's type of hell was more like Satan's. Victor has many people who love and care for him, but the creature is the one who doesn't have anyone to rely on. The creature has only himself just like Satan has only himself. They are both alone in life. Satan brought it upon himself though, whereas the creature was made in a way that he would be rejected and alone.

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    3. I agree with Micaela and Kaitlynn. The creature's hell was more like Satan's because of loneliness, while Victor's hell is more one of guilt and fear of the creature. I believe, however, that Victor's hell will become lonely like Satan's, as this is foreshadowed in the letters at the beginning of the book. In the letters, Victor is found alone, foreshadowing the deaths of his loved ones that surrounded him. So although his hell isn't one of loneliness at first, it becomes that way at the end of the book, on top of his guilt and fear.

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  3. The creature, Victor, and Satan are all resigned to a type of hell. Satan's was described in Paradise Lost as "..., there to dwell in adamantine chains..."(280;47-48) thus saying he had no way out of his situation. The creature's situation was similar, his only way out was to have Victor create another creature, with Victor refusing, the creature's hell consisted of him not being able to get out of his situation, thus, trapped in chains just as Satan. Satan also is described as "..., who durst defy the Omnipotent to arms."(280;49) This talks about how he defied God's laws which put him into hell. Well in a sense, Victor was put into hell in a similar way because he defied the laws of humankind by bringing back a human from the dead. This shows Satan's hell's similarities with Victor's and the creature's.

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    1. Ky is right when he states that all three characters are suffering different types of hell. The creature and Satan are in somewhat similar situations since neither one of them was loved by anyone and had to seclude themselves. Victor is suffering a different type of hell because he always has his family member's deaths in the back of his mind as something he was a part of.

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  4. Both Satan in Milton's poem and the creature in Frankenstein are both living in their own hell. Satan's hell is actually real and others can physically go in it. He says the ,"Lay vanquisht, rowling in the fiery Gulfe "(line52) and he also says "Both of lost happiness and lasting pain" (line55), so Satan describes his Hell as place thats on fire and there is always no pleasure and everyone is in pain, but he is in charge there. The creature's hell is a little bit differnet. His Hell is more mental and he is the only one who can live it. The creature says that "Am I not shunned and hated by all mankind?" (chp17,130) he also says he is "alone and miserable" (chp16,129). Victor's Hell is similar to the creature's. Victor isn't lonely at first, but then when the creature starts to kill all of his loved ones he becomes lonely. Victor in several parts sounds as if he is going to commit suicide, so his hell is miserable, lonely, and in a way painful enough that he doesn't want to live anymore.

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  5. Satan is resigned to hell; that's where he lives. He didn't/doesn't do things that people consider to be good. Being resigned to hell as a place is different than that being Satan's personal hell, because it very well could be. The creature's hell is lacking acceptance, love, and friendships. He's stuck in that place with no way out because nobody will help him or give him a chance. That's the life he is resigned to. Victor suffers unpleasant repercussions for treating the creature as he did; members of his family die and he loses Elizabeth, the one thing that makes him truly happy. He is resigned to a life-his hell-of being alone, just like the creature.

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    1. Could it not also be said that Victor could be in the place of God, when comparing Frankenstein to Paradise Lost? He is, after all, the creatures creator. And if we compare him to God, then couldn't it also be said that God also suffered when casting away Satan? Whether that might be mentally, or literally I don't believe it will ever be clear, but I just thought it was an interesting take on the situation.

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    2. Could it not also be said, when comparing the creature to Satan, that Victor could be compared to God. He is, after all, the creatures creator. If it is assumed that Victor is metaphorically God, then could it not also be said that when God cast Satan out of heaven, he also suffered just as Victor has?

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    3. I think that Satan's personal hell was serving in Heaven rather than physically being in Hell. Satan couldn't stand not having power over his own life so he rebelled. Him falling to Hell was better for Satan overall. He finally got the power that he craved. I agree that the creature's hell is his lack of love. I believe that Victor's hell is the loss of control over the creature and the destruction his creation causes.

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    4. I think that Satan's personal hell was serving in Heaven rather than physically being in Hell. Satan couldn't stand not having power over his own life so he rebelled. Him falling to Hell was better for Satan overall. He finally got the power that he craved. I agree that the creature's hell is his lack of love. I believe that Victor's hell is the loss of control over the creature and the destruction his creation causes.

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    5. In Paradise Lost, the hell is described as a fiery place where satan and his "evil followers" spend 90 days rotting. The monster hell however is a place where he is outcasted and has no mate for him to be with. The fact that Victor refuses to make him a mate, the creature starts to make his life hell by killing his friends and the foreshadowing of killing his wife. Victor's hell turns into this place where stress and anxiety fill his life.

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  7. The damnation and loneliness the creature and Victor both feel have driven them to hell. Sure, it is not actually the fiery depths of hell most associate with the world. It is something much darker and more psychological. Their hell is not something others can see. Victor’s family can not aid him in hell or see his suffering. It is the grief, regret, and despair he feels for the death he unintentionally caused. The death of his mother and paranoid fear of losing Elizabeth sparked his journey to hell. Creature’s journey started with Victor’s abandonment. The rejection of the De’Lacey family contributed to continuous despair. The tipping point was the moment creature was shot for helping a drowning girl. Rejection after rejection for deeds well done tormented and upset creature. Over time, he wished to fill his loneliness by loving a creature like him. When Victor destroys this female creature, creature feels no hope and not no longer deal with his loneliness. No possibility of heaven exists for him any longer. Seeing that life can not get any worse, he chooses to find company in his misery. This choice to destroy Victor and his family casts creature into the deepest parts of hell. There, he and Victor must both exist until one of them dies.

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    1. I agree with Micaela about no one else being able to see the "hell" Victor is going through. He is suffering a mental, psychological hell rather than physical. He is not suffering a physical hell since none of his family members can see what's wrong and are unable to aid him in getting better.

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    2. I completely agree with you Micaela. Victors hell can't be seen or understood by anyone because it's something he did to himself. No one in their right mind would think to do what he has done. He wanted the power and right to a ruler, and he got a little messed up on his journey there. He created a monster that has only caused destruction. He is feeling like his hell will never end.

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  8. In both of the stories the characters are resigned to hell. How the creature’s are resigned to hell is a little different. Satan is literally living in Hell. He describes it as being dark and on fire. The hell that creature is dealing with is a mental hell. He is in a mental hell because he can not find happiness. Not being able to find happiness drives him crazy and causes him to live in a hell. Creature can not interact with humans because of his looks and that makes him very sad and angry. Victors hell is causes by his own creation. Victor’s hell is also a mental hell because he is not physically living in hell. Creature makes Victor very unhappy with him because he killed off Victors family members and most beloved Elizabeth. That makes Victor feel like he is in a hell because he created this monster who killed off his family and he can not do anything about it. Creature and Victor live in the same kind of hell, mental hell, and Miltan lives in physical hell.

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    1. I really like how Mikaela talks about mental hell and physical hell. In a way I am really thinking that the creature and Victor are so alike it is scary, almost like a father son relationship even if Victor abandoned him. Victor caused not only himself to be in this mental hell but also his creature. This shows how a parents decision can effect a childs life. Even if Victor had made the creature more beautiful I don't know if he would have a good life. I almost feel like the creature was going to be abandoned no matter what and have to live in this hell that he doesn't really deserve.

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  9. I don't think that Victor and Satan share the same hell physically, but somewhat emotionally and mentally. Satan is literally alone and has no one as a companion in Paradise Lost. Victor has many loving family members and friends who care for him dearly. The only reason that Victor's life becomes a hell is because the creature turns his life into a hell like place. Victor's weakness was his loved ones, and that is right where the creature struck. When the creature kills the majority of Victor's family Victor feels as if he has nothing else to live for. Nothing else except for getting revenge on the creature. This is the same feeling that Satan has. He only wants to live to have revenge on God. The feeling of being alone and wanting revenge is the only ways I see Satan's hell and Victor's hell the same.

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    1. I agree with Kaitlynn when she says Victor and Satan share the same hell in an emotional and mental aspect. Their lives are a lot different since Victor has a family that loves him while Satan has no one. Satan is a lot more like the creature than he is like Victor since they were both abandoned and have no one that loves them.

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    2. I agree with Kaitlynn. Victor had the best childhood anyone could have. He never had denial and was in a very loving environment. Satan came from Heaven which is very nice but he was very greedy i guess i could say. He wanted power and to overrule everyone. Both go from having a good life to being in hell even though they are different like Kaitlynn said.

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    3. I agree with Kaitlynn and Mikaela that he had the best childhood that a person could have. No matter how nice a place a person could come from that doesn't mean they will always be in that nice place. People change and satan and Victor both changed in their childhood. Victor wanted to be alone and this doesn't so much make him abandoned but detached from his family.

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    4. I agree with Kaitlynn's comment when she says that Satan suffered from lonliness. This relates Satan to Victor and the creature, because they too suffered lonliness. The creature was literally always alone. He never had any friends, family, or companions. Victor, on the other hand, was not always lonely. It was only after he created the creature that he felt alone. He was unable to tell anyone what he had done, and his knowledge of the creature's existence distanced him from everyone he knew. His guilt over William's, and then Henry's death, also contributed. Near the end of the story, he is able to confide in no one, and his secret is the cause of his lonliness.

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  10. Satan’s hell is similar to both Victor and the creature, but in different ways. Victor’s hell is the guilt of creating the creature. He feels personally responsible for the death of his loved ones and can’t escape it until the creature is dead. Like Satan, Victor is isolated by keeping his secret and feels like he has power over the creature because he created him. The creature’s hell is more similar to Satan’s than Victor’s hell is. The creature is neglected by his creator and cast out on his own. Satan fell from Heaven and was resigned to Hell. The creature was cast out of society because of his looks and lives in the mountains miserably. He only wants to be loved and no one will which creates his hell. Hell is similar in for Satan, Victor, and the creature.

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    1. I agree with Madison when she says that the creature and Satan are similar when they are cast out. Satan being cast out from heaven and the creature being cast out from society resembles the same thing. They are both alone with no one because they have been rejected by the only people they know. They are both alone which leads to both of them acting in the same manner; to cause fear and hate.

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  11. All three characters are resigned to hell, but just in different ways. Victor feels as though he is going through hell because he feels he is held responsible for his family's deaths due to his actions by creating the creature. Unlike Victor, the creature has no family who loves him, which is a lot like Satan since he fell from heaven to hell. Both of these characters were neglected and pushed away by all of society and forced to live a sad, lonely life.

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    1. I also think part of Victor's hell is feeling alone and lost; before the creation of the monster and after. Afterward, he is scared, lost, confused and even more alone because he feels he can't tell anybody the truth. While Victor was pushed away, he pushed back. He left his family for years and never visited nor spoke to them, so he also created part of his own hell.

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    2. I agree with Kaitlyn. Satan, Victor and the creature are all resigned to their own hell. Satan literally is in hell. Victor’s hell is the creation of the creature. The creature hell is his lack of human affection and his yearn for it.

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    3. I believe that each character are resigned to a different hell like you said. I think that Satan is in a physical hell, Victor is in a psychological, and the creature is in both hells.

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    4. As Kaitlyn said, all three characters, though different, reside in their own form of Hell. Whereas Satan's Hell is a physical place in which he is exiled to, Victor and the creature's Hell is a mental state within their own psyches. Victor's Hell, as Kaitlyn has stated above, is the guilt he must carry from the monster's actions. Another aspect of Victor's Hell that isn't mentioned above is the constant worry of what the creature will do to him. In addition to Kaitlyn's description of the creature's Hell, I may add that he only wants to be loved and is denied this one request. He is even denied by his creator who finds him absolutely repulsive. He is abandoned and forced to live a life of loneliness, much like Satan as he was cast out of Heaven and Victor, who was shunned by his village for suspicion of murder.

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  12. Satan's hell, a fiery place of torture and misery, is quite similar to the creature's hell, as well as Victor's hell. Much like Satan's hell, the creature is cast into exile by the humans in which he seeks companionship and lives a life of misery. The solitude of being the only one of his kind tortures the creature to the point where he must threaten revenge on Victor, much like Satan threatens revenge upon God. Victor, on the other hand, lives in a hell within his own psyche. Because no one will accept his filed of study in attempting to reanimate dead tissue, Victor must cast himself into solitude and create the creature. Also, Victor is tortured by constantly questioning the creature's presence and having to always stay on guard. As the creature destroys everything and everyone Victor holds dear, Victor falls further and further into his own despair, much like Satan's decent into hell. Finally, when Victor finally decides to reveal the existence of his creature and take responsibility of his actions, the magistrate refuses his claims and Victor vows to never quit until he slays the creature. This act of revenge is once again mirrored by Satan's vow of revenge against God.

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  13. Just as in Milton’s Paradise Lost, the creature is cast into hell by his creator. Satan turned against God just as the creature turned against Victor, and both were sentenced to eternal punishment. However, Satan’s hell is physical while the creature’s is psychological. He was alone from his very first moments of life, as Victor immediately abandoned him upon his creation. Humans violently rejected him, repeatedly. As the creature encountered more detestation and malice from humans, he developed an aversion towards people and resigned himself to a solitary life. His hell is that he will forever wander the world alone, loved by none. Victor’s hell is also psychological. It stems from his feelings of guilt over the creature’s creation. He was the one who created the monster that killed his closest family and friends, so he is the one responsible for their deaths. This belief is a great burden on Victor, and his hell is that he must live with his decisions and their consequences for the rest of his life.

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  14. Just as in Milton’s Paradise Lost, the creature is cast into hell by his creator. Satan turned against God just as the creature turned against Victor, and both were sentenced to eternal punishment. However, Satan’s hell is physical while the creature’s is psychological. He was alone from his very first moments of life, as Victor immediately abandoned him upon his creation. Humans violently rejected him, repeatedly. As the creature encountered more detestation and malice from humans, he developed an aversion towards people and resigned himself to a solitary life. His hell is that he will forever wander the world alone, loved by none. Victor’s hell is also psychological. It stems from his feelings of guilt over the creature’s creation. He was the one who created the monster that killed his closest family and friends, so he is the one responsible for their deaths. This belief is a great burden on Victor, and his hell is that he must live with his decisions and their consequences for the rest of his life.

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  15. These characters are all experiencing hell in different ways. Satans hell is similar to what the creature is going through. It’s this hell where no one likes you or accepts you, yet you are still there and can’t change peoples minds. They can’t persuade people to like them because thats who they are and how their lives are always going to be. It’s hell living in a world where no one accepts you. They resort to evil and bad because of this. Victor is going through an almost emotional state of hell. He feels so guilty and responsible for this creature he created that is spreading evil on anything that crosses his path. His killings and destruction make Victor feel responsible, and this is hell because he doesn't even know what to do to fix the destruction he created.

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  16. In the Lost Paradise Satan has been sent to hell to reside for the rest of his life. Satan"s hell is physical, Milton describes the flames and heat of the fire. There also is never-ending darkness in Satan's hell. Victor's hell is the loneliness created by the death of everyone he has ever loved. Victor is in a psychological hell where he has no one to talk to or love ever again. The creature is both in a psychological hell and a physical hell. He is an outcast, there is not a single person besides Victor that will even talk to. The creature is alone and will always be alone so this drives him crazy. The creature has to hide in remote areas which represent the physical hell he is in.

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  17. Both the creature and Victor are resigned to hell just like satan. The difference is that satan lives in actually hell, the fiery sulfuric pit of doom. Victor and the creature’s hell takes place in the world of the living. Victors hell is the creation of the creature. The creature kills William and Henry, and threatens Elizabeth, and Victor knows he is partly responsible. The creature’s hell is the knowledge that he will never be loved. His time looking at the DeSanta household was when he resigned himself to his own personal hell. Victor and the creature hells are just as real as satan.

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  18. The hell in which Satan resides and the hell in which the creature resides are both similar in a sense that it marks their expulsion from their heaven. Satan, after trying to overthrow God in the biblical Heaven, he is cast down to Hell, a domain under his rule. This is similar to the creature's expulsion from human society. All he wants to do is live among humans and find love, yet is rejected and cast out into his own personal Hell of loneliness, rejection, and seclusion. The big difference is Satan's motivation for being in Heaven is filled with evil, as he wants to rule, while the creature's motivation to live in the human world normally is that of love.
    Victor's hell is similar to Satan's because it was brought upon himself. He chose to create the creature searching for glory, but doomed himself to a hell of constant guilt and worry of the creature's power. Similarly, Satan attempted to take over Heaven, and is cast down because of that.

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  19. The creature's hell is similar to that of Satan's because it both marks the expulsion from some life. Satan was expelled from Heaven to the biblical Hell after he tried to overthrow God. Similarly, the creature was expelled from his ideal heaven, finding love in the human world, and sent into his personal hell of loneliness, rejection, and seclusion. The only difference is Satan's motivation to get into his heaven was that of evil, while the creature's was that of love.
    Victor' hell is similar to Satan's because it was brought upon himself. Victor chose to create the creature to find glory, but instead doomed himself to a hell of constant guilt and fear. Satan also was sent to Hell because of his attempt to take over Heaven.

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  20. Each character lives in their own version of hell. Satan is literally in hell, which is described as "with hideous ruin and combustion", and having "adamantine chains and penal fire" (280:46, 48) Both Victor and the creature do experience a type of physical hell, when they are in isolation, but they are more emphasized as mental states of hell. They each have a burning anger inside them and a need for revenge, as well as miserable lives. The creature was rejected by society and struggles with his own insecurities and trying to find affection and a family. Victor struggles with keeping his horrific secret, as well as guilt for the lives of the people around him that were taken by the creature he created.

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  21. The hells of Victor, the creature, and Satan are all similar and some ways and different in others.
    They are similar in that all three characters have been rejected from their lives and live in misery. Both Victor and Satan are motivated by their desire for power. Both the creature and Satan desire revenge.
    They differ from Satan's in the fact that Victor's and the creature's hells are characterized by isolation and loneliness. In contrast, Satan has Beelzebub and his other loyal followers to keep him company.

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